A Desire To Serve Others

00:04
Brent Hinson
Between the lines with Virtual Academy. We all have a story to tell. Hello and welcome to a special 4 July edition of between the Lines with Virtual Academy, where today we wanted to recognize the brave men and women of our armed forces who put themselves in harm’s way in order to allow us the freedom those often quoted unatielable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So for this episode, we wanted to bring back a guest who is a retired US. Army Military Police first sergeant with over 20 years of law enforcement and military experience. As a matter of fact, he first appeared on the podcast nearly one year ago, just a couple of days shy of that, way back in episode nine. That was July 12, 2022. You can go back and listen to that in the archives when he was on. Then we wanted to make a point to invite him back for another appearance, and today’s episode just seemed like the perfect opportunity.

01:01
Brent Hinson
Before we bring him in, allow me to introduce the Commander in chief of this here podcast, mr. Michael Warren. How are you, sir?

01:09
Michael Warren
Buddy, I am great.

01:10
Brent Hinson
And happy Fourth to you.

01:11
Michael Warren
Happy Fourth to you. This is one of my favorite times of the year. I don’t like the hot weather, but I love July 4. I love what it stands for. Couldn’t be more excited. And I love Joe Willis. So I think we’ve got the trifecta or quad factor, whatever it is. We’ve got everything’s right today.

01:27
Brent Hinson
This is the hierarchy in your life. It’s left of Greg podcast, joe Willis, your wife, in that order.

01:34
Michael Warren
We might as well get it out there. Guess when my anniversary is. July 4. No kidding. Absolutely. Come on, buddy. Wow. Come on, man. Talking about fireworks. There we go, brother.

01:45
Brent Hinson
Happy anniversary. Wait, is it your anniversary of your wife or to Greg Williams?

01:51
Michael Warren
Listen, let’s not complicate things, all right? Let’s not mix those things. That’s how guys end up on the couch.

02:00
Brent Hinson
Okay. I got you.

02:02
Michael Warren
Hey, man. I am excited, though, because you guys know I love Joe. I enjoyed the conversation we had the last time he was on the podcast, and I would expect that this one is going to be no different.

02:13
Brent Hinson
Yes, he’s a very educated man, well spoken, and I think he’s going to have some great stories to tell.

02:18
Michael Warren
So why don’t you go and introduce him for us and let’s bring him on here.

02:21
Brent Hinson
All right. Our guests today retired from the United States Army in 2016 after spending the majority of the last two decades in direct leadership positions from team leader to company first sergeant. He served back to back assignments at the United States Military Academy at West Point as the senior enlisted advisor for Military Science instruction and as the academy’s Equal Opportunity Program manager. And he’s also served assignments in South Korea, Honduras, Germany, Iraq, and Kuwait. Currently, he is the Chief Learning Officer at firsthelp. That’s something we talked about the first time he was on the podcast, where he oversees learning and development along with that organization’s marketing efforts. And despite rumors to the contrary, he is not the goalkeeper for the Nashville Soccer Club. We welcome back to between the Lines, mr. Joe Willis. How are you, sir? And a happy fourth to you.

03:15
Joe Willis
Happy Fourth. Independence Day. Truly blessed to be here. Guys, I am super excited about this conversation. I’ve been looking forward to it since you first asked. This is going to be a great conversation today all about America. How can we go wrong?

03:28
Michael Warren
Exactly, joe, it’s funny you should say it’s all about America, because I wish that you could listen to some of the conversations that take place before you jump on these things right here. We had about three minute conversation, Brent, about the fact that you are indeed American and not Canadian, because apparently a misconception about that.

03:52
Brent Hinson
Well, to be fair, our executive producer, Aaron, gets you and Brian Willis confused, and he is Canadian. So I think that’s where he says this now, but that’s where the disconnects at.

04:03
Joe Willis
Yeah. If I could only be as smart and talented as Brian Willis. And if you haven’t had him on, you have. Maybe I missed that episode. Yeah. I’ll tell you, man, what a h*** of a guy. But he is north of the border. But no, I am from here, and I am not a goalkeeper. When I did play soccer, I was a fullback. But when I Google my name, I mentioned earlier during the first part of the conversation, if I do want to check to see if I’m somewhere on the Internet, I have to do minus soccer or minus goalie. Otherwise I’m like the 40th page. Right. So if I do come up at.

04:39
Brent Hinson
All, it’s like that scene in Office Space where he talks about Michael Bolton, and he’s like, I was cool until you started michael Bolton started winning Grammys. You were the Joe Willis until he came along.

04:50
Joe Willis
Right.

04:52
Michael Warren
I Google Michael Warren, and what I get is the guy that played on Hill Street Blues.

04:56
Joe Willis
Okay.

04:57
Michael Warren
He’s much taller than I am, and he’s much darker than I am. And he played basketball, I believe, at UCLA. None of those things describe they don’t apply to you.

05:06
Joe Willis
No, that’s not you.

05:08
Michael Warren
Yeah, but we wanted to have you on because we want to recognize the folks that are currently serving and have served in our military. And I’m amazed at people who are able to spend an entire career in the armed forces for a variety of reasons. But 20 years? It doesn’t sound like a long time. But it is a long time because it’s a grind when you’re in the military, isn’t it?

05:36
Joe Willis
It’s a little bit of both. Whenever that conversation comes up, the moment of reflection, I’m like, Was it a long time? H***, yeah, it was a long no, it wasn’t a long time. If I look at certain moments of it was forever, and it was never going to end. And it just dragged on, right? And then others, I’m like, man, where the h*** did that time go? The best years of my life just flew by. And so, yeah, it’s a little bit of both. But certainly now that I’m retired, I tell people I miss the clowns, but not the circus, not one bit.

06:09
Michael Warren
To be very clear, there are a lot of clowns, but it is a multifaceted circus, isn’t it?

06:16
Joe Willis
It is much more than three rings, I will tell you that much.

06:20
Michael Warren
Barnum and Bailey, nothing on the military. I want to take you way back. For those who maybe haven’t served in the military, that transition that somebody has to make from civilian life into the military life, I mean, you’re talking about culture shock. I think even people from military families oftentimes struggle with that because it’s such a change in the way that you have to live your life.

06:46
Joe Willis
No doubt it is everything. And I didn’t come from a military family. My dad was military when I was very young, but by the time I joined, it was long, ancient history. I was not prepared as much as I thought I was for that transition from all of the freedoms and all of that to suddenly being in this immersive environment where everything was dictated to me to a certain extent and you had to think outside the box. But the box was only so big, and there was a lot of challenge there. I will tell you, it has defined me, and it has defined so many people I know in so many different ways. Super proud of the opportunity, but, yeah, definitely a transition of culture shock.

07:34
Michael Warren
Let’s talk culture shock for a second. Okay. And I think it’s probably worse for the people coming into the military nowadays than it was when I went through Basic or when you came in. It’s not just kids, but people are constantly connected. They have that phone, and literally they can text, they can call, they can do anything like that. So there wasn’t this withdrawal of that constant connection when I went through that maybe they’re going through now, I can’t even imagine.

08:02
Joe Willis
So when I was the first sergeant for Basic training Company, an OSA company at Fort Leonardwood, and it was at that 2012 time where cell phones were a thing, smartphones were a thing, but what we have today, that pales in comparison. And so I know the challenges, the people that I was training faced as far as that withdrawal and that lack of constant connection and putting themselves to sleep with the blue screen, how that just wasn’t a thing anymore, right? And so those first few nights, it is it’s kind of like a detox, a digital detox for them.

08:42
Michael Warren
This is my experience and yours is probably completely different, but I thought one of the worst parts of that initial transition was the reception station. I don’t know what your experience was like, but the reception station for our listeners is when you first get to where you’re going to basic training. It’s where you go and all your paperwork is done. You get your shots, you get uniforms, you get your haircut, all those things, and it’s just like, boom, boom, boom. I went to Fort Benning and I went as a matter of fact, basic training started June 1, and so that’s the start of the summer season down in Georgia. So guess what they did to us in the middle of the night? Tornado drills. As if you’re not getting enough sleep as it is. That part of basic training. It was just like a blur, that thing, that three or four days, whatever it was, it seemed like a lifetime.

09:39
Joe Willis
Yeah, I remember distinctly, like, getting the airport, getting picked up in a van, brought to the reception station. I remember I was in civilian clothes at the time, obviously. And I get out of the vehicle and it’s everybody’s in BDUs and camouflage, and it was like, really crack of dawn early, like, still dark outside. And I was like, that stuff really works. There are people over there. I’m in the army now, right? And that was one of my first memories. And then you’re absolutely right, this fury fast pace of, like, fill out this paperwork, your social goes on everything back then. They’ve changed this now, obviously, but you had to have that memorized. And I remember my signature that I worked hard on to actually be a signature died in January of 1996 because I just started signing things with A-J-I didn’t have time to sign things effectively.

10:33
Joe Willis
And so, yeah, it effectively died then. And then you go through the lines, and there’s this thing you’ll do throughout your career where bravery and courage we talk about that in different contexts, and bravery is often just getting in line and knowing this is going to be this event for you, this kind of suck fest. And that shot line was one of those moments where I had to be brave for one of the first real times of my life because I wanted to turn around. I’m telling you, it looked like the syringes they used were in these, like, scissor type things, and I’ve got this Dr. Seuss mind thing happening, and these things were gigantic, this image I had in my head. And so I get in there and they literally these were syringes and guns that they were injecting us with, and I was just like, what the h***?

11:22
Brent Hinson
Anxiety just by you telling me this.

11:25
Michael Warren
Joe, you remember after you got the shot, it was like a big like a beasting. You’d get the big bump that would well, put it with the little red dot in there, and you’re walking through this line, and, man, they’re getting you from both sides, like bam. It’s like a rite of passage getting through.

11:42
Joe Willis
And then you get to the end and they tell you, bend over and just relax your right leg. And that’s where you get the tetanus shot in the b***. I’m talking nearly 30 years ago at this point for me and Mikey, too, it is as vivid now as it was back then, this reception. And then you’re in the barber chair getting your hair cut, and there’s no real physical training. And I’m thinking, this is the army. This is what I signed up for.

12:14
Michael Warren
Then they give your uniform, and for whatever reason, they decide that’s when they’re going to take your first official picture, right? And I remember the picture, my basic training picture. I’m sitting there. I didn’t have any bruises, but it looked like I’d been worked over by some master torture. Just worked over because I’ve got this dazed look on my face going, what in the world is going on here?

12:37
Joe Willis
Yes, absolutely.

12:38
Brent Hinson
I’m sure you want to have a conversation with the recruiter if you had one. Hey, can we maybe go over some of the things we talked about before?

12:47
Joe Willis
Yeah, I missed this part of the recruiter speech. I did not catch this part. So I got to ask you so you’re at this part, and then you mentioned, like, this blurry haze of things. I had this wait a minute moment, right? It was my first hurry up and wait experience in the army, which I’m sure every veteran out there is familiar with the term hurry up and wait. You do everything you can to get to the line of departure or be wherever you’re supposed to be, and then you sit there, right? Well, I had that I had about four days of really nothing. But then this thing happened, and that’s where you get on the cattle trucks, mikey, your first experience going, like, for.

13:25
Michael Warren
People who don’t know cattle trucks, they are what they sound like. They look like cattle trucks, and that’s what they transport basic trainees around in. So you go from this place that even though it was a blur and it was bam, bam, you started to develop and understand the rhythm of the place, right? And then all of a sudden, they load you up, and you’ve got to carry everything you’ve been issued. You get on these cattle trucks and you go over there, and, buddy, they open the doors to the cattle trucks, okay? And there was this little bitty drill sergeant Scroggins. And he goes, Take your time getting off my trucks. I don’t want anybody to get hurt. And so people kind of started, and all of a sudden he goes, Get off my trucks. Welcome to h***. And you go running around. You go running around the trailer.

14:15
Brent Hinson
That’s when I say mommy.

14:18
Joe Willis
There was some of that.

14:19
Michael Warren
But you go right around there, and there’s this massive drill sergeant. It’s like a swarm. This wasn’t in the recruiting video. This was not part of be all you can be. Let me just tell you that.

14:31
Joe Willis
Not one bit. I remember the glasses coming off. He had these gold rim glasses, which were unauthorized, but I distinctly remember these bright gold rim glasses, and he takes them off just as we cross these railroad tracks. He says, on that side of the tracks, you were safe. On this side of the tracks, your mind just let into us. And next thing I know, we are the doors open, and we didn’t get the it’s okay. Take your time. I’ve heard of this before, but it’s okay. Take your time. No, it was a push from the back. Everybody out. And then you go into, as you just said, that shark attack, which, by the way, they’re in this phase now where shark attacks are not what they were when you and I went in. And I want to pause briefly to say this is not the poo on modern training.

15:21
Joe Willis
There is a purpose. There’s a lot of research behind this new methodology. What Mikey and I remember is very special to us, and you will have your special memories if you’re joining from this point forward. But I distinctly remember a lot of the stuff I started that day with, I did not end that day with, and I never got back. I was shaving with somebody else’s shaving day for the first four days, right? Like, I had no idea where my stuff was until somebody comes to me. He’s like, hey, are you Willis? I think this was yours. And I ended up getting my stuff back. The stuff I had was not his. So he ended up getting some other guy’s stuff. It was an adventure.

15:58
Michael Warren
My barracks. So I was at Harmony church. And this is 1987. So these are the barracks that were built, I believe they said 1939. So that gives you an idea how old these things are. And they were these old two story barracks that were off the ground on these cinder blocks. The company road in between, there was all gravel. So that’s what we’re getting smoked on. Now, I have to share a personal story here to show you how vivid the memory is. Now, when you’re at the reception station, you’re issued this manual that you’re supposed to carry in your cargo pocket. In mine, it was the blue book. I was infantry. They said, you need to study the blue book. And in the blue book, it tells your general orders. You learn the ranks and all that. Dude, I studied. I studied all the rank, because anything I can do to reduce trouble, I’m there.

16:49
Michael Warren
We’re in ranks. That right. After we got off the cattle trucks and this little guy comes up to me and starts yelling at me, but he had a rank on him. I had no idea what it was. No idea. Never seen it before. And so he asked a question. I said, well, he’s acting like a drill sergeant. Yes, drill sergeant. I’m not a drill sergeant. Get down. Right. So I end up down there, and a little bit later, he comes back and he asks me another question, like, well, son of a gun. He must be an officer then, because he wasn’t wearing a round brown. He’s got the regular cap on. Yes, sir.

17:21
Joe Willis
Sir, I’m not an officer.

17:23
Michael Warren
What is this guy? So he comes back a third time, and I’m looking at this thing, and his rank insignia is a shield with a knight’s helmet across it. And I’m like, well, that’s the closest thing to a specialist I’ve seen. So I go, yes, specialist.

17:40
Joe Willis
Specialist.

17:40
Michael Warren
Oh, my gosh. And I’m down on the ground. So I’m down there on the ground doing push ups, and he gets down in my face, and he’s going, it’s Drill Cadet Alexander Hicks. And this dude that was between his sophomore and junior year at West Point, and they had to go and do some service, and that happened to be his. So Drill Cadet Alexander Hicks, if you’re listening, and if my memory serves correct, you’re from Columbus, Ohio. I would love to be able to talk to you.

18:10
Joe Willis
Too. Funny. Yeah.

18:12
Michael Warren
You talk about lifelong memories. You and I are in the training field, the ability to look back and reflect on how they take somebody with zero experience and weave them not only into knowledge, but into a team, and you got to see it from both sides. So I’d love your perspective on this. You got to be the person that was being molded, and then you also were supervising the people doing the molding. So how do they go about doing that? You say there’s a lot of purpose behind it, but what is the purpose, I guess, of basic training for those who haven’t been through it?

18:48
Joe Willis
Yeah. So I’m very fortunate in that I did assent as a first sergeant at basic training at OSA Company for Military Police, and then two assignments after that. I was the senior enlisted advisor for military instruction at West Point, which isn’t necessarily in the same TAC arena, but I was always there for our day, and then we had them for the summer, for that first summer. Take that shark attack, for instance. And its purpose back then, less research than it is today, was essentially that moment of a significant emotional event. If we want cultural change, that’s one of the things. Reocculturation is the other. But that takes so long. If I can create a significant emotional event that ties somebody that anchors them in an institution, which the military is one of our social institutions, and look at you and I right now, the vivid memory that we can go back to 30 plus years ago and connect with that’s, what its purpose was.

19:51
Joe Willis
And they knew this even back then. And before you and I even thought of serving, they knew the purpose of that. What’s happened now through research is they’ve learned that it can’t all be traumatic, right? And there were some traumatic things. There were often times where things got out of hand during the shark attack because emotions get high and we look at group think and the dynamics of that. So what they started doing was around the time that I was there, was being very intentional about top three involvement. So commanding Officer had a role that he filled that day. I had the roles, the first Sergeant that I filled that day. Things were very scripted for us. It was very programmed out. And so when we look at this from a trainer’s perspective, I have to create that significant emotional event, that anchoring moment. And when I go back to the Facebook group, that was the kids that I saw.

20:42
Joe Willis
Kids, I mean, they were young adults. So let me be fair here. The young adults that I saw coming through and like kid like I was back then, they remember that as vividly as I did. They’ll have that anchoring time. But I can tell you, as a seasoned professional who was there with a different purpose that day, it was truly about reception and integration. I had very specific things I had to do within that 1st 24 hours. And Drill Sergeants were on a mission to create that emotional event, but also to unify the troops for what we had coming for the next 17 weeks. So there is a lot of science behind it, a lot of research, but there’s also a lot of memory building, a lot of us free decor, and a lot of that anchoring that has to happen.

21:22
Michael Warren
It’s interesting to me because you talk about that significant emotional event. What struck me was the frantic frenzy of activity when you first got there. But when you eventually got to bed that night, how quiet it was, eerie quiet. It was like dead silent. And it was one of the most for me personally, it was one of the most self reflecting times of my entire life. I mean, talking about someone questioning their decision making, I think that was going on with everybody. But what amazes me about people who serve in the military, especially the American military, is that after all that happened that day, everybody got up the next morning. Not one person tried to quit. They didn’t know what the mission was. That combined mission mindset, it carried people through that entire process.

22:16
Joe Willis
Absolutely, yeah. In 800 people that came through during the time that I was in that role, I think I can remember maybe two. One, distinctly because I had interacted with him, which I don’t get that much interaction, didn’t get that much interaction with individuals. But I had interacted with him during that day, and the drill sergeants came to me the next morning. They were like, first, we don’t know what you said to him, but apparently he doesn’t want to be here anymore. And all they really said to him was, just keep your chin up, kid. Right. That was it. But two, that I can think of. And I had a feeling about him that day that it just was not a cultural fit for him. But you’re right. So when we look at the profession in that way and all of the things that make it what it is tremendously important that we build that cohesion as early and quickly as.

23:09
Michael Warren
Possible, I guess the tradition and all that stuff that is done, and it has to be intentional, okay? Because one of the things that I look back on when you would go to any range, it was named after a soldier. And that soldier had done something to preserve the freedom that we’re celebrating today, and they had done it in an exemplary fashion. Listen, Brent knows this. I’m a crier, right? I’m an emotional guy. I can remember marching and going to different ranges throughout the army installations, just reflecting. What was it like for the people 35 years ago that were marching down the same roadway, knowing that they’re heading to the European theater or maybe they’re heading out to the Pacific? People, they try to capture it in movies, but it’s like, there’s somebody here with me. There’s something bigger than me here.

24:06
Joe Willis
Oh, absolutely. One of the days that I really embraced and I wanted the entire cadre to do the same thing because it translated so well in that was the Bayonet Training Day. There is something that happens that day. You can watch the transition of people as they develop the confidence, and that it always starts off with a story of a time that soldiers had to fix Bayonets. And whether you go back to Revolutionary War or any number, the drill sergeant that was leading the training that day would always pick the story and really kind of hammer home the connection to the warrior mindset. And to watch that transition, that was the first day you really got to see them get into the warrior cry and all that kind of stuff. And while it sounds like we’re breeding a bunch of radical, but it’s not. It is truly about cohesion and the willingness to be that professional when the time comes to embrace the reality that so many came before us that paid that ultimate sacrifice.

25:21
Joe Willis
Am I one who’s willing to do that? And I think seeing them for the first time in that space, it’s powerful. Even as a troop going through it. What I remember is trying my best to impress my drill sergeant with the my warrior face, which was never good enough. And hitting the Perry left, Perry right, and hitting my knuckles on that stupid spring thing because I did it wrong. And I just remember in that day, but when I saw all of us at the end covered in sweat and I felt connected that day as a troop, years later, watching this happen, I watched a bunch of awkward Joe Willis’s running through there, doing their best to parry left and perry right and jab and make their warrior face. Yes, it was awkward for them, but in that moment, I saw them becoming the warriors we needed them to be, and our nation needs them to be.

26:19
Michael Warren
What you just talked about kind of takes me to another point in your role as a military police officer. And I think that one of the things that’s interesting about policing the military is that everyone there has been trained in the use of weapons. Most people have access to weapons that civilians don’t have access to. But the research shows that, statistically speaking, there is less violent crime committed by those in the military than there is in the civilian world. As a military police officer, that had to be something that was in the back of your mind that, listen, these folks have, by and large, had the same training that I’ve had. If I encounter somebody on a traffic stop in the civilian world, chances are they haven’t any training. So from police perspective, how did you handle that, dealing with those types of people?

27:10
Joe Willis
Yeah. So presumed compliance is a huge issue with us in the military police corps. So that is, I assume, under general military authority, if I give somebody an order, they’re going to comply with it. And generally speaking, day to day socialization, our client base, our community, is rather well disciplined, as you pointed out. Right. And so I distinctly remember watching I won’t drop his name here because chances are he may listen to this at some point, this guy say, hey, it’s at a bus stop. Unruly passenger is, you know, taken off the bus by passengers because we used to have a Greyhound bus stop right, on Fort Leonardwood. And so he’s being held down by some passengers, and he’s a soldier. So this guy who’s a troll supervisor, says, Go ahead and let him go. Hey, parade wreck. The guy hit him. I said, what are you doing?

28:09
Joe Willis
Right. Rule number one, you’ve already got the guy on the ground in a relatively easily cuffable position. Why not? No, it was just and so I will tell you, that was a constant threat we had that you just kind of assume people are going to do what you tell them to do, especially once you reach a certain rank. Right. Like people just pay attention. The other thing is we often would find ourselves training for was that ninjas in every corner because everybody’s so highly skilled, right. And inevitably, the time that we go deal. With something. It’s going to be a dude barricaded in a barrack room with a saw. Right. Like a squad automatic weapon. Right? Like a fully automatic five, six weapon. Yes. On all ends of that spectrum. So first, the presumed compliance piece, getting people past that general military authority does not work on a DUI.

29:07
Joe Willis
Right. It just doesn’t. And on that other end of the spectrum, we don’t have to constantly treat our community like they are the utmost threat. We would find people on both ends of that spectrum. But you’re absolutely right. When we trained, I remember the Fort Bragg sniper situation on a PT field. I was on an SRT at the time and that suddenly became like, hey everybody, we need to start training for this. All that really is an outdoor active killer situation. And once you get past that, so there’s a lot of different components to that’s a fun one to unpack.

29:46
Michael Warren
Well, let’s shift gears for just a second because that kind of describes the role of the military police officer stateside. What is the role of a military police officer in a wartime environment, in a combat environment, what are they responsible for?

30:04
Joe Willis
Yeah, so in a wide variety of aspects, they have many of the same roles in the forward deployed environments that you’re going to find in the rear. Right. So all of the law and order stuff on an installation often falls under some sort of military police purview as far as the outside the wire, it gets very broad. At that point, there was everything from route security and checkpoint management. So to keep the supply routes, MSRs ASRS free and moving often fell to military police. But the thing is, military police are a valuable asset that have another purpose and you can supply that elsewhere. So oftentimes that would then get moved over to other entities, other commands that could take that on. And then so where the specialization comes in is in that partnering with local law enforcement for the purpose of law and order. And so reestablishing law and order doesn’t matter what conflict you’re in or even if you’re not in a conflict.

31:08
Joe Willis
If a military police company or any size element is deployed to an environment, one of the first priorities is establishing a liaison with local law enforcement and to build that law and order capacity. And so that is a big piece of it. So throughout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the war on terror and a lot of the activity that was happening in Iraq and Afghanistan was largely about building the competency of law enforcement. So everything from standing up police academies to actually going out and partnering with police stations and just building those relationships where, hey, let’s actually go out on patrol. Let me show you how a patrol works. And while you’re not necessarily doing traffic stops, this is a good opportunity to just do some knock and talk sort of stuff right. And build relationships with the communities. We’re your police. We’re here to support you.

31:58
Joe Willis
And otherwise, what they would do is just kind often just stay in the station, not knowing what to do. And so that’s a big component of it.

32:05
Michael Warren
It’s almost like a Special Forces type activity where you’re training the locals to do the job that you’ve been doing so that it’s sustainable beyond your direct involvement with that activity.

32:19
Joe Willis
Absolutely. And to be fair to all of conventional forces, that became a big priority over the last couple of decades as to building the capacity of our conventional forces in any occupational specialty to partner with their peers in the host nation or the local forces. But from a military police perspective, you’re absolutely right. One of my favorite experiences was this moment where we got a tip from an organization that was kind of a grassroots effort among the Iraqi population to basically give tips right to their local police. So the IPS get this tip, they don’t really know what to do with it. So they reach out to the military police company and say, hey, we need support in this. There’s this rolling cachet coming through. We have reason to believe this is actually going to happen. And so they do. The military police company goes out there with this organization and the local IPS.

33:22
Joe Willis
They conduct a flash checkpoint and actually apprehend the individuals involved, seize the vehicle, which was a rolling cachet. And then what do you do with that? Look at it from a civilian perspective. What happens next after I arrest this person who is in possession of illegal weapons? What happens?

33:39
Michael Warren
There has to be the follow up with it. I mean, if you want to be truly successful, there has to be some type of judicial process that has to be undertaken to ensure that the person is held accountable.

33:50
Joe Willis
Absolutely. And that’s one of the things that was missing. And often where the expertise of American military police lend themselves to the forces on the battlefield, where what do you do with that? How do you seize that evidence? How do you collect it? And then how do you take this and move it into a host nation criminal justice system? Which, by the way, the Iraqi criminal justice system is distinctly different than the American criminal justice system. So we had to have lawyers who were doing like I said, all conventional forces play a role in this. We had to have lawyers who were partnering with local prosecutors. Here’s how you actually prosecute this here’s. The cool part that I really enjoyed the most was we had set up a forensics facility at Cobb Spiker where were actually doing forensics exploitation and used that facility to gain evidence that was used in a trial.

34:45
Joe Willis
That convicted the individuals who are involved in this process under their rule of law, so they were not detained in American detention and put into a detention facility. Instead, by with and through the Iraqi police conducted this flash checkpoint. They affected the arrest of criminals who were transporting illegal weapons. They seized those weapons, later, destroyed the munitions, then also convicted them in their rule of law under their court system. Huge success story.

35:19
Michael Warren
So the role of the military police isn’t to go in and cram the American judicial system down the throats of these countries that we’re in. It’s to support the judicial process and framework that’s already in place.

35:34
Joe Willis
Absolutely. Here in the States, both you and I have done a lot of training different agencies around the country as far as systems and practices. If I take what works in New York City, NYPD, a department of 30,000 officers, and I try to impose it on an agency that has 15 people in the Southwest, it’s not always going to fit. And I think that’s one of the things that as trainers, we’ve learned, that you’ve got to contextualize it and make it appropriate for the culture that it’s in. There are best practices that we as Americans and trust me, I remember distinctly having those moments of bias where I’m like, why the heck can’t you just do this? Right? Well, it doesn’t work that way. Enchiladas if God wills it is a mindset there. And then there are times where we would be at the mercy of if God wills it, this will happen.

36:34
Joe Willis
And it’s just different. And you have to adjust to that. Otherwise they’re going to reject everything you’re saying. And this isn’t just this population of Iraqi police. This is pick one agency in this country to another. What fits culturally and contextually there, you got to take into consideration.

36:53
Brent Hinson
I want to shift just a second and talk about your work with first help, because I have a good friend of mine who is military veteran and he will say, don’t call me, don’t text me on Veterans Day. Memorial Day, those are difficult days. And as much as we are celebrating our freedom and a lot of people are out enjoying the day today, there are a lot of folks that are having a difficult time on Independence Day because they’re remembering the people who have lost their lives. How can that tie into your work with first help?

37:29
Joe Willis
Yeah. So I would say the biggest piece of this is that once again, we’ve got to be aware that everybody handles all of this differently. There are some who crave that connection on those days and go out and seek it. But on the other hand, many, just like your buddy, just kind of want that moment of solitude. There are Memorial Day. There are those who are convinced that to say happy Memorial Day is taboo and those who have not only accepted it but embraced that it’s okay to be happy on Memorial Day. Right. Another big one is on the 4 July we often see the signs in people’s front yards veteran with Pts. No fireworks, please. And that sort of thing. I think one of the things that we need to do as a community who are the fellow vets and that sort of thing is connect with those that we’re close to and be respectful of those individual wishes, right?

38:28
Joe Willis
Like, if somebody doesn’t want fireworks, don’t let them ruin your entire holiday, but develop a relationship with them and be respectful of what’s happening there in that person’s life. I would say, is a big one. I would say. The other thing is, too, from the first help perspective, we often talk about the wrong time to fix the roof is when it’s raining, right? Kennedy’s quote there, get ahead of it. If you’ve got veteran friends and you’re not a vet yourself, ask those questions like, hey, when Memorial Day comes around, is it okay to say, Happy Memorial Day? Get their perspective on it. When the 4 July is here, what do you celebrate on the 4 July? I’d love, from my own perspective to say that for the 4 July, it’s all about patriotism and red, white and blue and all of that stuff for me.

39:14
Joe Willis
And while there certainly is a taste for it, and I do appreciate that, the bigger picture is it’s about community and family and connecting with people, right? And it always has been that way, no matter how patriotic I’ll ever be, for me, it’s that. So I would say, to answer your question, Brian, maybe that was a little long winded in the answer, but get ahead of it. Connect with it well in advance, because each one of those holidays has their own unique element to it. Memorial Day is truly about the ones we’ve lost. Veterans Day is about those who have served in any capacity and are still serving today. And the 4 July Independence Day is as much about my neighbors who could care less about the military. They just want to have a nice barbecue and realize it’s awesome to be an American. We’ve all got to have respect for that.

40:08
Michael Warren
It’s interesting to me when you watch the different ways that people celebrate July 4. I think it’s very difficult. Although people find a way to do it inappropriately, it is about being an American and recognizing the freedom that was bought and paid for by people like yourself who served in the military. And I think Memorial Day is one of the most sobering days of the year for me, just reflecting on the sheer number who have paid the ultimate sacrifice. But as I get older, what really starts to hit me are the people who continue to pay the price. They’ve lost limbs, they suffer from Pts, they’ve had traumatic brain injury, and that price that they’re paying is lifelong. It’s sobering to me, but it’s also, in another way, it’s so encouraging to me that brave men and women are willing to do that and are still signing up to serve in the military?

41:10
Joe Willis
Absolutely. I was just listening to this video speech, Reagan speech, and they had kind of overlaid it with this really cool video effects and everything. And it got to that point I’d heard it before about we often think of the men and women we’ve lost as being these old senior people, but the reality is that the majority are young. And when we look at the relationship between veterans and law enforcement let’s just take a moment to pause on that. About 25% of the first responder population is veterans. Ebbs and flows, different organizations depending on where you’re at, but across the nation, about 25%. What we find is that suicides among first responders is right about that 25% line as well. So what that tells us is that just because you’re a veteran doesn’t necessarily mean you’re more likely to die by suicide. As a first responder.

42:10
Joe Willis
It correlates there, right? But it also tells us that we do have two distinct populations, and if we can affect one, we can affect both. And so we just met with the VA for the second time the other day. We’re having a great conversation, I say the other day. This will air on July 4, so it was a little while ago. But what’s happening right now across the populations, the Veterans Affairs Office is working very hard to establish a line of communication and a line of service for first responders. And I want to give them all the credit that they’re due that they’ve taken a bad rap. And the Veterans Affairs Office has really worked hard to overcome some of the stigma that was associated with them in that mental health space. And I can tell you without a doubt, if you go to the Veterans Affairs office that look up, just Google Veterans Affairs, make the connection, or go to Veterancrisisline.org, you will find a tremendous amount of resources there.

43:12
Joe Willis
And dial nine, eight and press one. Remember, this used to be the suicide hotline, right? We’re no longer calling that. We’re calling it a crisis line now because it may not be a person who is in a suicidal situation, but they’ve got a crisis that is starting to develop and they need someone to talk to. And I will tell you without a doubt, I have confidence in the veteran crisis line to be that. And if you go to the make the Connection materials, there is so much in there. If you’re dealing with Pts or alcoholism or domestic violence in your home or any number of things that often come with the heavy burden that we carry, the resources are there, the help is there. You just have to look for it.

43:57
Michael Warren
The VA has taken a bad rap, but if were to be honest in the first responder world, their response in many cases has been no different than many of the police organizations or the fire organizations or the dispatch organizations, because we just ignored it for a long time. We wouldn’t listen. We don’t want to hear about it. We ridiculed, in some cases the people that admitted that they had some issues, so they’ve taken the wrap, but they’ve kind of been the heat shield for some of our other professions as well.

44:26
Joe Willis
True story. Yeah, that’s a great point. And because they’ve been out there and they’re dealing not only with this small population that is the veterans within the first responder community, but they’ve got millions of veterans that are in one way or another, whether they are just now transitioning out and they’re trying to get through their claim. And they serve six years, eight years, whatever. Or they’re a 30 year vet looking at retiring. Or they are passed by 30 years. Right. And they’re still using the systems. There’s a tremendous load on them to resolve. And when they were making mistakes and there were some horrible things that happened, but I think at this point, they’ve worked very hard to make amends and are working diligently to develop those systems. My challenge to veterans out there is, again, get ahead of it. The wrong time to find that counselor, the wrong time to deal with a crisis is in that moment of crisis, start developing those relationships ahead of time and put them to the test.

45:27
Joe Willis
If you’re not getting the service you need when things are good, then that’s the right time to bring up the issues. The wrong time is to wait until situation is bad and then try to solve it.

45:38
Michael Warren
And talking about building systems and getting the word out, you continue to do that right now with first help. And in fact, you and I are going to be co teaching on a day coming up next month, August 24, down in Kennesaw, Georgia. We’re doing a virtual academy live down there. I’ll be doing my thing, but what are you going to be speaking on during that particular event?

46:01
Joe Willis
Yeah, Mike, I’m absolutely excited about it. So we have a program called Responder Readiness. It’s a four hour workshop that takes a very not surface level look, but not too deep of a dive on stress. We get that as first responders, we understand what that is, but then we start looking at ways of reframing stress and a lot of the positive psychology mindset. Some stuff from Dr. Kelly McGonagal and the way she looks at it in the book The Upside of Stress, highly recommend anybody in this space pick that up and read it. But we kind of flip stress on its ear. What are some of the ways that we can take that thing that happens inside of us and turn it into a positive response, a challenge response? I can do this. An excited, delight response. It’s okay to be excited about this stressful thing that’s happening in my life.

46:44
Joe Willis
Or tendon befriend it’s okay to reach out for help. It’s okay to seek connection when I’m stressed. And so we take a look at those. Then we get after the persistence piece of this. One of the challenges that we often have in this space is framing those conversations for how to have the difficult conversation. We use what’s called the Results Warning Communication Model, where it’s a simple framework that I can pre stage a conversation that if I need to talk to Mike, here’s the things I’m going to say, right? Like, I kind of want to have this laid out in my head and how I’m going to address it. It’s different than sitting at home all day waiting till somebody gets home and then releasing the buzzsaw on them. No, this is a framework. This is a framework where I can say, hey Mike, I’ve noticed these things.

47:32
Joe Willis
I overheard you say this. Here’s what I think. The story I’m telling myself in my mind right now, I’m worried. I feel this way because of it. Here’s what I want to do about it. Can I get a commitment from you? It’s a very simple framework, but what we often do as human beings is we jump straight from the dude, I saw this to let’s do this. We skip over all of that important stuff in the middle. And so we give them a time and space to practice that. We also go over the local resources and have them kind of fill out a worksheet on what are the resources that are available, give them some time in class to prepare that. And then we start everything off. We kick the day off. Now, this used to be the final module, but we now kick it off with what we call the range of resilience.

48:16
Joe Willis
It is five very simple, practical resilience skills that any one of us could use at any time and should be using on a regular basis, which I’m going to give away the answer to the test right now. It is recognizing the good, right? Seeking intentional joy and gratitude, which is a difficult thing sometimes for those of us who live in this world of constant negativity and the worst of the worst, right? We go over that, recognize the good are a active, constructive responding, how do we engage with people? And I do this little demo. Everybody will see it then, but it’s kind of an example of what wrong looks like. And then we talk about how to actually engage with somebody we care about. Because the reality is so many of us find ourselves slipping by picking up a phone and just kind of not paying attention to that other person or whatever.

49:04
Joe Willis
So active, constructive responding, notice the world around you. Very simple mindful skill. But this is one I have a hard time teaching because we could go so deep on it. But I only have a little bit of time. So we introduced the concept of mindfulness and noticing the world around us get up and move is a skill which is largely about all of that. Developing the neural pathways of finding joy and gratitude, being connected to that mindfulness, but also creating that time and space for endorphins and that sort of thing to get that positive neurochemistry happening. And then lastly is energy management. Everybody knows about the breathing stuff, right? That’s a pretty common one. We go over cyclical sign and a little bit of research out of the Huberman Institute, which I highly recommend people look into, basically, how to manage that energy that’s building up in us.

49:56
Joe Willis
So those things kind of real. That’s a very surface level of what we’ll be going over.

50:02
Michael Warren
When were scheduling this class, and I asked one of the agencies that’s kind of leading the hosting of this said, hey, what topic would you like? And he goes, man, wellness and resilience. I said, I know a guy. I know a guy. That was an easy one. It’s the easiest one to schedule so far as we’re wrapping things up here. I just want to point out that one of the things that I am so blown away by is the fact that we still have people going in the military and doing that job so that we can celebrate days like July 4. And I can’t thank folks, if you’re listening and you have served, you are serving. Or if you’re going to serve, man, thank you for what you do, because it does make a difference. And making a difference is what living should be about.

50:48
Michael Warren
Now, Joe, you’re going to appreciate this. I was denied the permission to sing God Bless the USA on this episode. I wanted to. It’s going in my mind right now.

51:02
Brent Hinson
I was not a part of this conversation.

51:04
Michael Warren
We have a CEO, and the CEO, he reminded me this is not a music podcast. This is a first responder. And we don’t want this to be the last thing that these people hear before they unsubscribe. But man happy July 4, and thank you for your service. God bless America. We live in a great country, and we oftentimes forget it with all the stuff we got going on. But I will say that this country is great because of people like you, Joe, and people like you, Brent, and people like you, Aaron, and people like you, Brandon. We’re all different. But that difference is what makes us so great.

51:42
Brent Hinson
I wish we could take the emotion that we have on days like 4 July, harness it and just continue it the other 364 days of the year. If we could figure that out, man, we’d be doing well. I wish we could figure out a way to do absolutely.