Tactical Effectiveness Through The Art Of Jiu-Jitsu

00:04
Brent Hinson
Between the lines with Virtual Academy. We all have a story to tell. Hello and welcome to another edition of between the Lines with Virtual Academy. We’re a podcast going beyond the badge to allow members of law enforcement public safety and first response a place to tell their stories and also talk about the cases that have impacted their lives. How you doing? I’m your co host, Bret Henson. And when it comes to the subjects of law enforcement use of force and or de escalation, it would seem as if incorporating a discipline like Brazilian jiu jitsu would be a useful training tactic because it revolves around the practice of achieving nonviolent submission. I mean, the word itself, jiu jitsu, translates, if I’ve got this properly, to gentle art. So our guest today is going to talk about how his passion for the martial arts influences how he conducts himself as a law enforcement officer.

01:02
Brent Hinson
It’s a subject I’m looking forward to hearing his perspective on today. But before we bring him in, allow me to introduce our own version of Dana White here on the podcast, the face and the mouthpiece of between the Lines. Mr. Michael Warren. How are you, sir?

01:17
Michael Warren
I’m good. And Brent, I just wanted to point out for our listeners that gentle is not a word that is used often on this podcast, because Gentle, you and I are not we’re more like a hardcore China shop, you know what I mean? It’s crazy, though, how there is this misconception in society that this type of training makes it more likely that somebody’s going to get hurt. In an interaction that involves force between officers and the public, just exactly the opposite is true.

01:48
Brent Hinson
And that’s something I was hoping that you all would touch on or I kind of chime in on, is when done properly, I think it works the way it’s supposed to, but it’s people that maybe don’t do it properly. That’s where the issue comes in. I’m just assuming as the non law enforcement person, I’m just asking questions here.

02:07
Michael Warren
In a recent episode with Jamie Borden, it talks about training brings about competence, and when you’re competent in something, that makes you more confident and when you’re more competent, you’re more willing to go out and train further in a discipline. And it’s this revolving thing that just makes us better. But I think too often, though, and maybe it’s even internal, I think that people think that an emphasis on this type of training, this hand to hand type of training, makes it more likely that things are going to go sideways. And I truly believe that we get better results, the better prepared our people.

02:44
Brent Hinson
Are, because this isn’t an offensive tactic. This is a defensive, it’s a protective measure, really.

02:51
Michael Warren
It’s driven by what the other person does.

02:54
Brent Hinson
Right.

02:54
Michael Warren
That’s what we often forget, too. These encounters are initiated by someone else and the officer has a duty, a responsibility to respond, which I think is often lost. And I can’t wait to talk to our guests. But it’s been my experience most officers don’t want to be involved in these types of things because, I mean, they’re human.

03:16
Brent Hinson
They don’t want to get hurt either.

03:18
Michael Warren
But there’s a selfish part. I don’t want to get investigated. I sure as heck don’t want to have to write the report because there’s enough paperwork out there. But it’s part of the job. And the better prepared they are, the better off everybody is. So I’m excited to hear what he has to say, but why don’t you tell us a little bit more about him and bring him on? Let’s see what he has to say for us.

03:37
Brent Hinson
All right, well, our guest today is a police corporal with more than 16 years of law enforcement experience. Twelve of those 16 years have been spent with the Kerry, North Carolina Police Department, where he serves as a training coordinator, lead defensive tactics instructor, and field training officer, program coordinator. Oh, and by the way, he’s a black belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu because of his background in training. To borrow a quote from last week’s guest, Sergeant Jamie Borden, if you f around with today’s guest, you’re going to find out we’ve had him on the books to get him on the podcast for the past few months. We’re finally able to work out a time to get him to come on. Looking forward to hearing this discussion today. We welcome Corporal Randy ORC to the podcast? Thank you so much for making time for us, bud.

04:26
Randy Wark
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me on, Randy.

04:28
Michael Warren
I’ve got to tell Brent this. I should have told him this a little bit earlier, but my first encounter with people from the Kerry Police Department was actually in the 2022 Nafto Conference. It wasn’t you, but one of your compadres from Kerry was talking a little bit of smack out there on the cornhole playing field, and that did not end well because right here is the champion. It was great meeting some of you guys. And then we ran into each other again at Navto this year. So I will start you out kind of like we do everybody. How did you get into law enforcement? What was it that drew you into it?

05:08
Randy Wark
So actually, my father was a police officer up in Buffalo, New York, where I’m originally from, and he did 23 years straight night shift for all 23 years and retired a lieutenant. So it’s been something that has been kind of near and dear to my heart since as long as I can remember. The irony is I just found a picture. I was spending some time with my dad in Tennessee and going through old photographs, and there was this picture of me. I was probably five years old, wearing a Buffalo Bills hoodie and a police costume over top of it with my dad’s police hat on and it’s just kind of a reminder of this has been part of my life since I was born, so I was always intrigued by the profession. I always wanted to go to the police station whenever he had to go by there to drop some off, some paperwork or run some errands.

05:50
Randy Wark
I always wanted to be in and around the police cars whenever I saw him. And it’s just something that seeing him do it at such a high level with the respect he had, I admired him and his profession, so for me, it just kind of seemed like a calling. And I know that seems cliche and you probably hear that a thousand times on this episode or on this podcast, but it really was something that’s the dream profession for me for as long as I can remember thinking about it.

06:15
Brent Hinson
How did him working nights his entire career affect you growing up? Did that make you, when you saw and you’re like, Dad’s a superhero because maybe you didn’t get to spend enough time with him or kind of put him on a pedestal a little bit or how was that dynamic?

06:29
Randy Wark
It was interesting. My dad, he’s like many fathers, he prioritizes his kids over all else and so a lot of times that was at his own sacrifice. And so he would work night shift. I would go to school, I would come home around 245 03:00 in the afternoon and he’d be awake. And I think the schedule actually worked pretty well because he was awake by the time I got home from what I was doing. And then he would spend all day and evening with his kids until he had to go to work. So he would sacrifice a lot of himself to be around us and be a positive influence. And he would come to all my martial arts tournaments, training and taking me to class and stuff like that. And he’d followed my brother, who was an avid football player in high school. He’d go to all his games and practices and stuff.

07:13
Randy Wark
And I don’t know how we did it, to be honest with you. So we always had a very good relationship.

07:17
Brent Hinson
When you’re a dad, you find a way.

07:18
Randy Wark
Yeah, somehow.

07:20
Michael Warren
But it’s interesting because I do spend quite a bit of time on the road, but when I’m home every night, I’m taking one of the boys to some type of practice. The older I get, the more meaningful that time alone in the car with them becomes. That’s my time with them. And I have to imagine that it was kind of the same with you.

07:38
Randy Wark
Yeah. And I’ll tell you where it did have an impact on me and this kind of parlays into some things we’re going to talk about, I would imagine. I remember distinctly visiting him at the hospital when he got hurt on the line of duty as well. And I was young and that had an impression on me, and I think that it taught me pretty early on that this profession isn’t like the TV or the movies. It’s real life, and there’s real danger associated with it, and they kind of humanized the badge, you know what I mean?

08:05
Michael Warren
Well, you take this larger than life human being that you’ve been around your entire know, as Brent said, this superhero, and to see him in a situation like that has to impact a kid when they see their dad like that.

08:19
Randy Wark
Absolutely.

08:20
Michael Warren
It was a calling. And Brent and I, we love people where it’s a calling because they behave differently, they train differently. But you didn’t start, even though you’re with Carrie right now, you didn’t start at Carrie, where did you start your career?

08:32
Randy Wark
Correct. So I went after high school, a week after prom, I went to the air force, and then after a short stint in the air force, I came out. My roommate in the military was from Danville, Virginia. So small town in Virginia I had no ties to, but was able to get some FaceTime with some police officers that worked in that jurisdiction. I ended up getting hired by Danville police department in 2007. So I worked there for a few years before I transferred to Cary, North Carolina. Cary is kind of where I figured there was a better quality of life. I can make a better future in Cary. That’s why I came here.

09:01
Michael Warren
Let’s talk about your career in Virginia, though, because I like to call them the formative years as law enforcement. And one of the things that you and I talked about was you were working and you had been sitting in a hospital room with somebody that was in your care. What was that about?

09:19
Randy Wark
Yeah, so it was pretty early on in my career. I had a few years on, but not much. I still would consider myself a rookie by all accounts, and I had been at the hospital. Danville did things a little bit different than some other agencies might, but we would sit with psychiatric patients at the hospital until the sheriff’s office could arrive.

09:34
Michael Warren
To take over, which, by the way, in Virginia has gotten more problematic. We had a chief from Marion, Virginia, talking about mean, not just hours, but now officers are having to spend days sitting with people in hospitals, and people think about, man, well, that’s cush know you’re sitting in a control, but it’s dangerous, it lulls you into complacency. At least that’s been my experience.

09:58
Randy Wark
Yeah, absolutely. And in this case, the psychiatric patient didn’t really do anything with me. I just waited. They came in, they transferred cuffs and shackles, and they took over the babysitting duties, and I hit the road. But I hadn’t brought my computer in with me. And so when I got to the car, there was a bolo on our computer platform. There had been a rape that was committed in our jurisdiction, and the suspect used a revolver in the commission of that crime, and they gave a physical description of the suspect. And I was actually driving toward the scene to help out another officer who was even younger in the field than I was. And I ended up passing the suspect that matched the description to a T while I was en route to that call.

10:32
Michael Warren
Just to put things in for our listeners in hierarchy, I think most people would agree that there’s the ace in the deck of the people you want to catch as a police officer. You’ve got murderers, you’ve got armed robbers, you’ve got rapists, and you’ve got kidnappers. Those are like the ones right there. If you can be involved in that when you see him, when you’re en route, because you and I, we’ve talked about mindset before. You’re expecting to go to the scene, but you encounter him before that, and it doesn’t mean you’re not ready. But it requires a change in that mindset.

11:08
Randy Wark
It did when you said formative years. I would classify this as certainly one of those formative moments in my profession. It ended up shaping a lot of the things that I got into down the road, I saw him. It definitely threw me off a little bit because I didn’t anticipate seeing the suspect. I figured he was long gone by then, and he was actually walking with another subject. But my eyes keyed in on him because he’s the one that matched the physical description provided in that bolo. I actually drove past him because, like you’re saying, you’re thinking in your mind that’s potentially the suspect, but time is still moving, and your vehicle is still moving. So I actually drove past him, had to turn around and come back.

11:43
Michael Warren
It’s almost like you’re having a conversation with yourself. And did I just see what I just saw exactly? Is that real?

11:49
Randy Wark
So I turn around and come back to him, fully expecting him to be gone again, because suspects are like ninjas, and how they can just vanish into the darkness when the police drives by them. And sure enough, when I turned back around, he was still there walking with his Budy. And I was like, okay, well, here we go. I got out of car. I called out to the two suspects. They were just a couple of paces away from me by then because I drove up to them with the vehicle, but they were still walking away from me. The one that I was not interested in stopped immediately, turned around, and said, what do you want to talk to us for? The other guy kept walking a couple more paces and then did what we call a furtive movement. So he turned and touched his waistband area.

12:22
Michael Warren
But now, this time, did the Be on the lookout had it said that there was a revolver involved in the incident?

12:31
Randy Wark
There was. They said that there was a revolver that was used because they talked to the victim and the victim said he had used a revolver, he had threatened the use of that revolver. So I had in my mind that there was very likely a weapon involved in this encounter. And so when he made that movement, I had received at this .0 training in regards to body language or what Affirtive movement was or any of those things, other than the very minimal amount of training you get in the academy on that topic. The hair sit up on the back of my neck. I just got a really bad feeling about it. I saw his hand touch his waistband and so I closed the distance on what was left between us and grabbed onto his hands and walked him back over to the car and then touched his waistband where he had just motioned to and felt the handle of the revolver.

13:10
Randy Wark
Knew immediately that it was a gun. Absolutely, immediately knew. And it was weird. It was like there was a mutual understanding between him and I. It was like I could tell that he knew that I knew, if that makes sense.

13:21
Michael Warren
Yes, absolutely.

13:23
Randy Wark
The tension grew immediately and before I knew it, him and I were fighting over the hood of my patrol car.

13:27
Michael Warren
Over that gun, because up until that time, though, he’s probably hoping that you’re not going to discover it and that you stop for some other reason and he’s going to walk out. Once the cards are out on the table, then game’s on.

13:39
Randy Wark
Yes, and that’s exactly what it was. I had been doing Brazilian jiu jitsu for maybe a year and a half, two years at this point. Still relatively new in the art, but it taught me enough, thankfully, that I gained control of his wrist, or what we call a wrist ride, pinned his wrist to his belly so he couldn’t get the gun out, and bent him over the hood of the patrol car. And we just kept kind of push, pulling on the hood of the car and I just didn’t want to give up any space. It went through my mind at one point that maybe I should push off, trade distance and draw my gun. And I feel like that’s something that they would have taught in the academy. Looking at it, I’m glad I made the decision I made, because if I were to push off to create distance and draw my weapon, you’re looking at 50 ODS.

14:16
Randy Wark
Now. Who’s faster on the draw? Well, I’ve got retention on my holster. His is in his waistband, and then you’re creating space and guns are ranged weapons, and so now we’re entering into that territory. Whereas in this moment, I had control of his wrist, I had closed up all the space. I was in a dominant position at this point. I felt like my ODS were better to stay where I was. And so we fought over the hood of the car. I actually got a good wrist ride with my strong hand. I was able to get to my radio with my support hand and say, I need some help over here. The scene was not far away, so that newer officer I was referring to earlier came screaming over the train tracks that were near in his Impala. And at one point, I felt like he was going to kill all of us with his Impala because he came airborne over the train tracks.

15:00
Randy Wark
Refreshing.

15:01
Brent Hinson
I can’t imagine this is a scenario that you practice with a person, but it’s a scenario that you probably practice within the art form of trying to subdue someone and gain the advantage over them. Correct.

15:15
Randy Wark
That’s a huge part of Jiu. Jitsu is controlling another human being who’s trying to control you and impose your will and your dominance on them. And I definitely bring it into the fray now as a training coordinator, my guys do that because that was a very impactful moment. And it’s funny when you get into something like that, it’s terrifying, but not until after, because you’re so rapidly pulled into this encounter that you’re just in fight mode. You’re in survival mode. I got to win this fight. That’s all I’m worried about is winning this fight. Afterward, we got him into custody, obviously secured the weapon.

15:44
Michael Warren
I’m assuming that you probably clinched up a little bit when the, you know, Dukes of Hazard over the railroad tracks. And it’s a hard thing being the second person to the fight because you’ve already got this wrist lock, and it’s like, I don’t want to give up that position of advantage even with another person there. And I think that we’ll talk about training coming up, but I think that’s one of the things that needs to be trained on a little bit better, joining the fray.

16:11
Randy Wark
Absolutely, yeah.

16:12
Michael Warren
Starting the fray is one thing because I don’t have to depend on somebody else, but this is a newer officer, newer than you coming to help you out. It had to be a little bit frantic at that point.

16:24
Randy Wark
It was, but it was also it was funny. So his name was Nicholson. I don’t know if he’s still in law enforcement or not, but he was like a center in football in high school. He’s a big, strong guy, so he just kept getting out of the car when he showed up. And you could see the other guy that was out there that wasn’t directly involved. He kind of looked and just melted away from him like, oh, God. And so what I did is I had good control of this guy, and he sort of stopped fighting when he saw the presence of a second officer. I think he kind of knew the gig was up at that point. I was able to get him in handcuffs, and we secured the weapon. It was communication I actually told Nicholson, hey, get him. Because the whole time I’m fighting, I’m cognizant of the fact that there’s a second individual that may or may not get involved.

17:06
Randy Wark
And I’ll tell you guys right now, I’m pretty confident that if that second subject would have decided to not just stand there and watch like he did, I probably wouldn’t be in this podcast with you guys, because there’s no way I could have dealt with the two of them by myself with a weapon present. There’s just no way. It was everything I could do to control that first suspect. That was a very formative experience for me. And the fear kicked in when I was filling out the arrest report. We had paper arrest reports filled up by hand back then, and my hand was literally shaking so bad I couldn’t even write legibly because that adrenaline dump finally kicked in at the end of that.

17:36
Brent Hinson
Something I have to ask, because I think it is relevant size wise. Was he bigger, smaller? Same size as you? Because I think this plays into the art of jujitsu depending on it doesn’t matter what size they are, it’s gaining that advantage, right?

17:53
Randy Wark
Yeah. And I’m not a big guy by any stretch, right. Currently, I’m five 5165, so I’m below average in size and stature. I take care of myself. I work out much because of these experiences. And he was bigger than me back then, newer in my profession. I haven’t grown since, like, middle school, so I used to not be the short guy, but back then, I was actually competing back then. So I was about 135, 140. And he probably was about what I am now, but maybe a little taller. I had to guess he’s probably 5859, 165, 170. Probably about his size and stature. The other guy was substantially taller, but very lean, so they were both bigger than me.

18:34
Brent Hinson
But that just goes to show that you can gain that advantage despite maybe being a little bit smaller than the person that you’re trying to apprehend.

18:41
Randy Wark
Right.

18:41
Michael Warren
Randy, can you kind of describe for us in general terms how difficult it is to control somebody who doesn’t want to be controlled? And I’m not even talking about getting.

18:52
Brent Hinson
About my marriage or what.

18:56
Michael Warren
Listen, that’s how people end up on the couch. Just say. But when you’re trying to control movements of a person so that they can’t get a hold of something that could do you or somebody else harm, it’s not as easy to control that person even when you outnumber that person. Is that correct?

19:13
Randy Wark
Oh, absolutely correct. And we have to play by rules. This always comes up, because undoubtedly we’ve all heard this. If you’ve been in this profession long enough, somebody watches cops or live PD or whatever, and they’re like, well, how many cops does it take to control some 125 pound girl? We’re not fighting her. We’re trying to get her hands behind her back and get her secured in handcuffs, which is a very unnatural position that your body’s programmed not to go to. So it becomes very difficult because if I was fighting 125 pound girl straight up, and there were no ethics or morals or rules associated with it, and I could throw strikes, this fight would be over in seconds. But that’s not what we’re trying to accomplish. We’re trying to secure somebody safely in handcuffs, somebody who doesn’t want to get secured in handcuffs. Extremely, extremely difficult.

19:54
Randy Wark
Even with two or three officers one person, that’s very difficult to do.

19:58
Michael Warren
You’re limited, because I want people to understand, watch these use of Force videos and see how rarely a punch is thrown by the officer. Now there are punches thrown on the other side, but literally, it’s a battle to control the hands, and it’s a different game. And I wish people understood that.

20:18
Randy Wark
And that’s where Jiu Jitsu really comes into play. And wrestling and other grappling based systems come into play. In regards to defensive tactics for law enforcement specifically is because it’s all about control. You watch NCA wrestling, it is all about positional control, dominance and leverage. And there are a few people on the planet that are better than those guys at doing that. So why not bring that into law enforcement? I mean, it just makes sense, and.

20:42
Michael Warren
I preach this, but I just can’t get people to believe me. It actually makes it safer for the person we’re trying to take into custody, the better trained the officer is.

20:52
Randy Wark
Yeah, well, a prime example, that situation. I just told you guys about that scenario, I would have been completely justified.

20:57
Michael Warren
What’s the alternative for you if you don’t if you’re not controlling, what would you go to? What would you have been justified in doing?

21:02
Randy Wark
It had been a shooting all day long. I think in a lot of interactions, if I were to go back into that scenario, I’d probably do it the exact same way now. But if you were to take six different officers and run through that scenario in a force on force training scenario with Sims or whatever, I would bet you that if we did ten officers, I would bet you seven out of ten would shoot the suspect.

21:22
Michael Warren
And this is speaking generally, I think that the ones that are more likely to do it and they’re completely justified in doing it, I’m not saying they’re not, but the less confident you are in your hands on tactics, the more quickly you have to go. You’re forced to go to that because it’s the only option that’s going to work.

21:40
Randy Wark
People ask me sometimes what is kind of the one thing, if you could impart wisdom on somebody in regards to defensive tactics in combat, what’s it all about distance management. And then look at how that marries to firearms and training and tactics, and it’s all about who controls a distance and knowing when to create it and when to take it away is paramount for police officers to understand.

22:00
Brent Hinson
Now, obviously, physicality is one element, but what about self discipline as far as your mindset goes? Because we’re human, you’re trying to get someone subdue someone, and they smack you in the face, it’s going to piss you off. So in the art of jiu jitsu, how does that self control, that discipline come in? How does that play a factor for you?

22:25
Randy Wark
That’s a really good question. I think it comes down to a little bit of inoculation through training, through relevant, realistic stressful training. We’re all human. I’ve been punched before as a police officer in a fight. I’ve punched other suspects before. It is rare because to me, strikes are not the end all, be all. It all comes down to how you’re utilizing your tactics, but being inoculated to constantly imposing your will on somebody who’s resisting you. In a training environment, things happen. You get kneed in the head by mistake, you get elbowed in the head by mistake. Things happen in jiu jitsu or wrestling or whatever grappling based system you’re pursuing. And you have to maintain control of yourself. Because what you find is, if I lose control, I lose the fight, I get submitted, I get pinned, I get thrown. You have to constantly be dialed in and dialed in, yet detached.

23:15
Randy Wark
It’s this weird dichotomy of what you need to do, because I need to be dialed in regards to I need to be able to feel and see and understand what’s going on intuitively. But I also have to be detached emotionally from the situation, because at the end of the day, the most important thing for me is to win this battle. I tell my officers all the time, don’t even bring handcuffs out until you’ve won the fight. You have to make sure that you’re prioritizing what you’re doing. I want to get frustrated, I want to punch back, but it may not be the time for that. It may not be the right recourse, and then it leads down the litigation route, too. If you can’t justify what you’re doing, you’re going to pay dearly later. And those are all the things that you have to keep in mind.

23:54
Randy Wark
And I think the only way to do it correctly is, like I mentioned earlier, increase proficiency. The more proficient police officers are at going hands on, the less likely they are to lose emotional control themselves in those situations, and the more likely they are to be successful in their endeavors in pursuing that physical control. But it takes training. It’s not something that just gets bestowed upon somebody because they get issued a badge and gets sworn into office. They’re still a human being. Training is super important, especially with all the expectations on law enforcement today.

24:23
Michael Warren
What causes the stress in those situations is often a belief, whether it’s conscious or unconscious, that I am. Not prepared. I’m not equipped to win this fight. And that’s when you start seeing the emotional reaction and you start seeing the inappropriate responses on the part of the officer.

24:41
Randy Wark
Yeah, I couldn’t have said it better myself. That’s exactly what happens and people overcompensate. It’s funny, the further I’ve gotten along this journey in Jiu Jitsu and training in law enforcement, and when I’ve gotten into these struggles, it’s almost like the emotional control has changed over the years to where it’s still stressful. It’s always going to be an adrenaline rush. It’s a fight, but it’s like just kind of smooth sailing through those situations where when I was younger in law enforcement and still a little bit less experienced, I could feel that frustration building up. You could feel it in your gut and you’re like, kind of getting pissed and getting irritated. I don’t even feel that anymore.

25:16
Brent Hinson
How important is it for senior officers to impart that wisdom to the younger officers? Because I think when you start out I’m just assuming you’re full of piss and vinegar and you want to save the world, how important is it to have that mentorship to say, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s calm the horses a little bit?

25:34
Randy Wark
Well, the irony on it is yeah, depending on the senior officer. Right. And I was blessed to have some pretty good mentors, including my father, coming up through the ranks in Danville and in Kerry. Definitely had some solid role models. But we’ll talk a little bit later about the difference in mentality between training for younger officers and training for senior officers. A lot of times, some of the senior officers can be the worst violators of what we’re talking about right now.

25:58
Michael Warren
Confidence has to be earned, and it’s earned in training. Where it becomes a problem is when there’s overconfidence in your ability and your ability is lacking. And that’s what happens when there isn’t training. Let’s go back to this specific incident for a second because you had an interesting conversation with this guy after the arrest was made, and what did he end up telling you about the encounter?

26:21
Randy Wark
He told me that if he could have got to the gun, he would have shot me in the face. He made it that crystal clear in our conversation after the fact, and it kind of took me back. You assume lethal intentions, of course, when somebody has a weapon that you’re fighting over, but it’s different when somebody confirms that afterward. And my only response was, well, it’s a good thing that I won then.

26:41
Brent Hinson
How does that mess with you mentally, though? Does that throw you off your game a little bit or are you able to kind of get your focus back?

26:49
Randy Wark
It’s weird. Cops are different in the way that we’re programmed sometimes. It definitely struck me as like, oh, wow, okay, this was the real deal. But then I also was like, damn, that’s kind of badass. I just fought this dude that wanted to kill me and I won. And so it’s kind of this dual thing, but it was a catalyst to what I would call almost an obsession in training and preparation, understanding body language and pre assault indicators and the psychology of combat and all these things. And there were other experiences, of course, that preceded that kind of solidified, that even more so, but this was the launching pad for that.

27:28
Michael Warren
But Randy, I’ve got a question here a bit facetious. You won that fight, didn’t you?

27:34
Randy Wark
Yes.

27:34
Michael Warren
You didn’t get shot. The bad guy went to jail. So why would that cause you to want to train more? Because there are many people that say, hey, listen, I won. I must be proficient, I must have everything that I need. But you just said it started an obsession in your training. Yet many people that if they’d have had that exact same thing, they would have thought that they’ve arrived in the unarmed combat.

27:57
Randy Wark
Because I know there is an element of luck involved in that. I mean, you got to be humble in these situations. The bad guy always gets to say, I had been training up to that point, and I trained because I just loved martial arts. It had nothing to do with law enforcement back then. It’s kind of changed my mindset on how I look at that now. I still love martial arts for martial arts sake. There was definitely an element of luck involved in that. It could have gone a completely different route. And I’d be lying if I said it didn’t take me back to being a child, looking up at my dad in the hospital and remembering what he went through. And that’s like you guys said, you look at your father like a superhero. And I thought my dad was indestructible. His situation, to keep a long story short, was he was chasing he was in a vehicle pursuit with a stolen vehicle, multiple.

28:37
Randy Wark
Once they wrecked out, subjects jumped out and ran. He chased the driver and the passenger. They got into a fight on top of a barbed wire fence. He fell onto the side of the fence with the two other people. One of them drew a gun and hit him in the head with a gun instead of shooting him with it and knocked him unconscious and left him there in the alley. His former FTO found him unconscious and took him to the hospital. So that could have been completely different. And when I say there is an element of luck involved, there was certainly an element of luck involved with his. And that’s a guy that took his job seriously, trained for it, prepared for it, had a passion for it, was the guy that wanted to get into everything and had all the respect and admiration of the officers he worked with.

29:14
Randy Wark
And of course, I’m being his son, I’m looking at him like he’s some kind of godlike figure this guy can do it all, and he got lucky.

29:22
Michael Warren
I think that what training does is it reduces the reliance upon luck to be successful. Puts the control more in the hands of the officer when we train properly.

29:34
Randy Wark
Absolutely.

29:35
Michael Warren
Now, you started off in Danville, but you ended up moving to Kerry and Brent. I got to tell you this. I think that every single officer I have ever met from the Kerry, North Carolina Police Department has been from a New York you have New York represented at your agency.

29:57
Randy Wark
They actually say it’s the central area for relocated Yankees is what Carrie stands for, is what they say.

30:03
Michael Warren
Awesome.

30:04
Brent Hinson
You need to get that on a T shirt somewhere.

30:07
Randy Wark
Yeah.

30:08
Michael Warren
But you end up going there, and that’s where you’ve continued in your career. But were talking about another incident that you were involved in that impacted your outlook on your career.

30:23
Randy Wark
And let me preface it with this. I know people are probably going to listen to this and they’re going to say, oh, God, it’s another cop that just tells war stories this whole time about how great he is. And that’s not what this is about. Like I said, there was an element of luck in the previous encounter that training helped with, but there was still luck involved in any fight. There’s going to be that, well, this next one is really about my failures, honestly. And so when I came to Carrie, it was a different animal. Cary has a high level of expectation of service from their citizens, and rightfully so. It’s a great place to be, a great place to work. I had a disagreement in philosophy and mindset with a supervisor I worked with, and I gave him the opportunity to discipline me. I provided the opportunity.

31:02
Michael Warren
Why did you choose those words? Because I like that. I like how you said that.

31:06
Brent Hinson
I know exactly what he was saying when he said those words. I get it.

31:09
Randy Wark
Yeah. I provided him the opportunity. He didn’t do anything wrong. He did his job as a supervisor, but I provided him the opportunity to discipline me. Meaning I screwed up, right? I didn’t do something the way I should have. And I think a lot of people don’t take responsibility for their actions, and you don’t have to agree with it. I didn’t agree with the level of discipline I faced, and that’s no secret that I thought that it was too heavy of a blow for what had happened. I actually used the analogy that somebody just killed a mosquito with a sledgehammer because I felt like it was such a small deal that was made into such a big one. But the bottom line is, I can disagree with the level of punishment, but I provided the opportunity for that punishment. So that’s on me. And it related to a follow up.

31:50
Randy Wark
There’s nothing like unethical and moral that’s not me. But I didn’t do my due diligence on an investigation. There were a number of reasons for that. None of them are excuses. They’re just reasons. And I held discipline pretty hefty discipline. We have a step system in our hierarchy of discipline, step three being the highest, I got a step two. And so it was a pretty heavy blow initially. Major shot to the ego. Emotionally responded to the situation. I was like, I’m just going to go sit in this parking lot. I’m not going to do anything. I work my butt off. I go out here, I get into stuff. I do all this work, and then this is how I get repaid for it, is with this step two. This is nonsense. Not wanting to look at what I did to contribute to the circumstances that led to that.

32:30
Randy Wark
I was sitting in a parking lot being disgruntled, which anybody with experience in law enforcement has dealt with that before. You’re lying if you haven’t. If you think it’s all sunshine and roses, you’re lying to yourself. I’m sitting in that parking lot, I’m acting like I’m not going to do any police work, and I’m scrolling YouTube on my computer. And it just so happens that I come across a video called Good. I, at this point, had never heard of Jocko Willink. I didn’t know anything about him, didn’t know what Stoicism was, none of that. I was just scrolling YouTube. I don’t know why it came up on my feed, but I’m obviously grateful that it did now. And I watched it. I was like, man, that was a really cool video. And it just kind of set off a light bulb in my brain. I was like, Man, I’m sitting here pouting essentially grown man in uniform, pouting in this parking lot.

33:13
Randy Wark
I’m acting like I’m not going to do anything, and this is how I’m responding to it. I’m just hurting myself. At the end of the day, instead of taking this learning opportunity for what it is, it set off a chain reaction. I started researching, obviously looked more into Jocko, read his book, Extreme Ownership, and did all the things, but also looked into Stoicism because it’s very similar to what he talks about a lot in his podcast. I don’t think he claims to be a stoic or anything, but that’s very similar in its principles. And it taught me that I needed to take control of my situation, how I respond to it. I can’t control the fact that I got disciplined. I can’t force this supervisor to do anything. All I can do is choose how I respond to it. I go to the extreme in a lot of things.

33:49
Randy Wark
That’s just my way. I’m either all in or all out. And so my response to that was, I’m going to be so effing good at my job that he’ll never be able touch me again. That was how I decided to respond.

34:00
Brent Hinson
To it kind of curious. When you were going through this period, did you consult with your father and what kind of advice did he have for you?

34:08
Randy Wark
I did. He was instrumental because there were points in time where I was like, do I even want to be in law enforcement anymore? You go down that rabbit hole. Right. And he told me to look in the mirror and remember my why. Why did I get into this profession? Why did I want to wear a badge so bad? And he told me, he said, if you go to work, no matter what happens, discipline, whatever, you go to work, you get home safely, and you didn’t wrong anybody. Then you had a great day in law enforcement. And he kind of really motivated me to take a step back, because you get caught up in everything. You get in the weeds sometimes in law enforcement, and we oftentimes forget to remember why we’re doing this to begin with, what is our driving force? And I think that was huge.

34:50
Randy Wark
So coupling that with what Jocko put in his podcast and what the books told me about that was big.

34:58
Michael Warren
You talked about going down the rabbit hole of, do I even want to be doing this job anymore? When we go down those rabbit holes, all we see are the reasons not to be right. I like how you said your dad said, Take a step back, get out of the hole. Yes, there are reasons not to be in law enforcement, but there’s reasons not to work at Lowe’s, and there’s reasons not to be a mean, but if that’s all you see, you’re more likely to follow through with it. And it just seems like having somebody like that in your life to give you that perspective, and then you go and you couple it with what you found. With Jocko, it had to be perfectly timed in your professional career to help you along the way.

35:38
Randy Wark
It was life changing. And there was a quote by Stoicism. Marcus Aurelius was one of the first quotes I came across when I started delving into Stoicism. You have control of your mind, not outside events. Realize this and you’ll find strength. That will was an epiphany when I read that, because that’s what led to that whole idea of, like, okay, yeah, I got control over my situation and how I respond to it, and that’s when I made that decision. I was going to be so good at this job that was never going to happen again.

36:02
Michael Warren
Yeah. Going back to the video you watched, if you haven’t watched it, the whole idea is, hey, you know what? You didn’t get the promotion you wanted. Hey, well, good. That gives you more time to prepare and better at what you do now and get ready for the next time. Hey, you know what? You didn’t get the job you want. Good and if we look at those things like that but man, there’s too many people in our profession that once they experience a setback or in their minds a defeat, that they’re too willing to give up. And unfortunately, Randy, the part that bothers me the most is that not all of them look to leave. Many of them look to stay and then do exactly what you were prepared to do, which is nothing. And those people become an officer safety problem, not only for themselves, but for the people they work with 100%, as were talking earlier, that also carries over into training because a lot of times those people, when they have that mindset, they’re not just depolicing, they’re not training.

36:59
Michael Warren
So they do get to go to your class on defensive tactics, as you and I describe it. I think we have similar terminology. They come in and they half ass things and you teach them something and they’ll go through one rep and say, oh, there I go. I did what I was supposed to do. But they’re not prepared to deal with a situation that you had to face.

37:18
Randy Wark
Yeah, and we see it a lot. I have a thing I say now that it’s received well by some and not by others. And I feel like there’s this whole idea of celebrating mediocrity and normalizing weakness in today’s law enforcement. And what I mean by that is, I mean, obviously mental health is super important for today’s law enforcement. I’m not casting any shade at that whatsoever. And I think it’s great that it’s not as taboo as it used to be. We actually had an officer from our agency take his life a couple of years ago, so we’ve dealt with that and a lot of agencies across the country are dealing with that currently. I think it’s important for people to understand, though, that if you only work on mental health and talking about your feelings and there’s no physical pursuit, then you’re doing yourself a disservice.

37:59
Randy Wark
And essentially, in my opinion, you’re normalizing weakness. And that’s just how I feel about it because I feel like the two are married together, physical and mental are married together. You have to train both.

38:08
Brent Hinson
And that’s what I was talking about earlier, that self discipline in addition to the physicality. That’s where that marriage comes together, I.

38:16
Randy Wark
Would think it is. And it’s another form of inoculation. You do a hard workout, right? Do a hard workout and struggle. You develop resilience in your mind to push through that workout and overcome. And I think that those things are directly correlated. And being able to apply yourself physically in firearms training and tactical training and defensive tactics, those all have payouts in terms of how you perform on the road, which is going to be impactful on your mindset, too.

38:40
Michael Warren
But it’s not just with the benefits aren’t just at work. You also realize those at home and with your friends and with your family. I have a budy of mine who is a black belt in Brazilian jiu Jitsu. And I asked him one time, I said, hey, how long did it take you to get to that? And he goes, It took me ten broken fingers. And he goes, we don’t measure things in time. We measure things in the adversity that you have to go through in order to accomplish the mission. That’s a great how many people would have quit after the first one, right?

39:14
Randy Wark
Yeah. And that’s facts. Jiu jitsu is that’s another benefit of jiu jitsu for law enforcement is the inoculation distress and overcoming adversity and hardships because it’s such a deep dive, there’s such a steep learning curve in Brazilian jiu jitsu. When you first start and they say that the hardest belt to get is your white belt to step foot on that mat for that first time and deal with that, I think there’s some truth to that.

39:37
Michael Warren
I’m a big fan of James Clear atomic habits. And he says, Listen, your 10th blog that you write is always going to better than the first one, but you can’t get to the 10th one until you write the first one. Well, I can’t become more proficient in going hands on until I get onto the mat and I start practicing. I start training. You talked about how you really like to work with your young officers, with your new officers, because that’s where you can really make impact, because you can make it the norm to be resilient. You can make it the norm to go through hardship and still persevere more so than you can, perhaps with an older officer.

40:13
Randy Wark
Yeah. And that’s something that lately has become really my passion and my focal point, because there’s no offense to the old heads out there and the senior officers, all right? I mean, it’s all on the individual. And I think that what happens a lot of times is you get veteran officers that came from a different culture, different mindset. In this profession where everything was provided by the agency, they didn’t want to do anything, extra it’s, check the box, get the training done, and move on. And they never had any issues with that pursuit, that method before. That doesn’t mean it’s the best way, though. Just because it worked for you to this point doesn’t mean it’s the best way. And when we get these younger officers that come in, especially in the field training officer program that I help coordinate, or in our new hire orientation that we do with new hires that come in, whether they’re lateral transfers or completely new out of the police academy, they go through a new hire orientation, which usually is a couple of weeks long.

41:01
Randy Wark
What I like to do there is kind of build that expectation into those new officer, brand spanking new out of the police academy. This is just the way it is. You don’t know any different. It’s the same as some of the older cops, that they didn’t know any different either. They came in, they learned a certain way, they worked a certain way. That’s all they knew for 2030 years. I feel like we owe it to this profession, to the younger officers coming in, to the citizens we serve to raise that expectation and make that norm something better than what it’s ever been.

41:31
Michael Warren
My good friend Brian Willis, one of the favorite things he likes to recommend is a book called Do Hard Things. We have to, as a profession, quit avoiding things because they’re difficult. We need to quit avoiding things because there are hardships involved. Brian Murphy the lieutenant responded on the active shooter at the Sikh temple. One of the most impactful things I’ve ever heard somebody say, he goes sometimes in training, you have to go out all out so you know how it feels. Yet in law enforcement, we don’t want to do that because there is the chance of injury and we don’t want anybody to get injured. But, man, sometimes it’s got to be difficult. You have to fight for it. I think if we start them young like you’re doing, then we get much better results. 10, 15, 20 years down the road.

42:17
Randy Wark
And we’re seeing the payoff with some of these newer officers. Part of my job, too, is I review some body camera videos, use of forced incidents and stuff like that. All our supervisors are doing that. And I’ve heard a lot of positive feedback from what these younger officers are doing out there when they have somebody who’s resisting arrest or whatever. I’m hearing it on body camera. Sometimes you can’t see because body camera gets like, covered up or falls off or something, but you still have the audio. And I’ll hear officers doing things like, hey, I got his legs, get his arms. I got control of his upper body, you get his lower body. And we’re hearing this communication, this dialogue, and I already know what they’re doing because I taught them to do it. And it’s amazing. Our uses of force have gone up, something that changed that in North Carolina, and I’m not sure how other jurisdictions handling.

42:55
Randy Wark
I know the Fourth Circuit has this but taser usage. For a long time, officers were over reliant on Taser because touted as having this ridiculously high success rate, it was supposed to do all the things that you and I are talking about today, about how being trained in martial arts helps de escalate situations and can lead to people getting injured less often. That was what Taser was supposed to do, and it did to some degree, but it also escalated some situations as well where it wasn’t as successful. And so Pinehurst versus Armstrong North Carolina Superior Court case changed the way we can use our Tasers, and now we need assaultive behavior or imminent risk of physical assault on us or a third party in order to use our Taser to apprehend a suspect. It used to be, I could tell you’re under arrest, and you’d say, yeah, go pound sand.

43:39
Randy Wark
I’m not doing that. And I could TASE you. You take off running from me. I could TASE you can’t do that in North Carolina, we have to be able to articulate more. And so what that leads to is less use of Taser and higher numbers of hands on unarmed attacks, or at least unarmed interactions between officers and suspects. And so now the importance of physical skill sets is even more important than it’s ever been.

44:04
Michael Warren
And the reality is, we should have been that way the whole time. Over reliance on any weapon system creates bad results, and we need people that can go up and down the array of options flawlessly and seamlessly in a fluid fashion, depending on the circumstances. And just saying, you and I were talking. I firmly believe that training is an agency responsibility, but learning is an individual responsibility. So if we can get the young officers to understand, you’re never going to know it all. You’re never going to arrive. When it comes to this stuff right here, what you have to be is continually learning, and that’s on you. I can give you all the training. Listen, we could do training once a week, but if you’re not willing to learn, you’re never going to get better. And that’s what we need as a profession.

44:58
Randy Wark
No, most definitely. And I told you I was going to steal that quote from you. I like that.

45:03
Michael Warren
I think it just describes it. Brent I have to say this. When I encounter an instructor that is passionate like Randy is, I’m more likely to listen. But when I hear the story about, hey, listen, I could have shot this guy, that was an option that was legally available to me. But because I was trained, I was able to say, you know what? This is a better response to it. Having people like that in the profession is what we need. Randy you know it and I know it. We’ve got some instructors that act like some of our students that they just want to check boxes, and that’s unacceptable.

45:41
Randy Wark
Well, I think that’s a big part of that, is I call them paper tigers. You get people that come into this field, and they’re voluntary to go to an instructor school, and that instructor school is two weeks long, and they get a piece of paper that says that they’re an expert in this topic. That’s just not sufficient, especially when you look at high liability areas like defensive tactics or firearms or whatever. That’s not enough. Two weeks is not enough to make you an expert. And then what it does with the wrong people is it blows their ego up. And then it’s just like what we talked about. If an officer gets into a situation that they’re not prepared for what happens. They overcompensate. And it’s the same thing with instructors. If you get an instructor that’s not competent, that’s not prepared to be challenged in what they’re teaching because they don’t have the background or the experience in that topic, then their ego comes into the fray, and then they overcompensate.

46:25
Randy Wark
And then the problem with that is, because it’s an instructor and because they have the influence that they have, they’re creating training scars, they’re creating bad habits, bad mindsets in cops. And so it just is a cyclical event. And I think that instructors hold a very instructors field. Training officers, supervisors hold a very important impactful role in the future of this profession.

46:48
Michael Warren
It’s been my experience that in many agencies, some of the most undertrained people in the organization are the trainers, because once they are labeled as a subject matter expert, they’re no longer sent to training to improve their skills. And that’s something we have to address as a profession.

47:04
Randy Wark
Yeah, and we are dealing with that in our agency. I know everybody is. We are big. Myself, I have two people that I work with in the training unit in Cary. One of my coworkers, him and I teach a lot of the classes, and he’s more of the firearm side of the house. I’m more of the defense attack side of the house. We have overlap in active shooter and pre assault indicators and stuff like that. But we’re going through that right now, trying to get more buy in from our instructors. But the problem is, you have some that they only want to teach what they were taught in that instructor school for two weeks. They never went to anything beyond that. There’s no continued education for instructors other than that two week certification and maybe like a research every now and then. But to me, it’s like, no, you need to constantly be seeking that edge.

47:46
Randy Wark
I just got back from Long Island, New York. Went out there for a two day super seminar. There were 25 black belts in attendance, and it was a law enforcement jiu jitsu seminar. They had the number two best grapple in the world. Nicholas Marigoli, volunteering his time to teach cops because he cares that much about law enforcement. And I realized I was a very small fish in a very big pond. And I love that feeling, because now I’ve got somewhere to grow. What happens when you take a goldfish and put them in a bigger bowl? So it’s that mindset that we need not only in law enforcement, but instructors. You constantly have to seek out new challenges. If you are the expert in the room, then you’re in the wrong room, and there’s a certain amount of humility that needs to come with that. And I think that started with what we started this episode with, talking about that experience with the armed suspect, you asked me why did I.

48:33
Randy Wark
Become so obsessed with bettering myself when I won the fight, and it’s because that’s how it’s supposed to be. You should always be striving to learn more. The newest, most updated tactics. Pressure test the crap out of them. Don’t just take them as the gospel. Pressure test them. Put them through the rigors and make sure they’re actually what they say they are, and if they are, adopt them and grow.

48:53
Michael Warren
Now, when I ran into you at Napdo this year, you were teaching one of the breakout sessions. What was that session about?

48:59
Randy Wark
So I called it the professional versus amateur mindset is what I called it, because I’ve also learned that cops, they learn the buzzwords and the key phrases, and as soon as you say one of those that they’ve heard before, they just go glassy eyed. They zone out. They don’t want to pay attention anymore. Professional versus amateur mindset was just fancy word of saying growth first, fixed mindset. So basically it was a mindset class. I brought up the same story about the write up because that was very important for that material. And basically, it talked about trying to encourage officers, trainers in this context because it was the National FTO conference to instill this mindset into their trainees of constantly pushing the bar and understanding that sometimes, if you look at an amateur athlete versus a professional athlete. Amateur athletes. They go practice when they’re supposed to, and they go home when they’re done.

49:42
Randy Wark
And they don’t think about that sport or that activity again until the next practice or the next game. And it’s just a hobby for them. It’s a pastime, right? Professionals look at like, I’m not I’m a Bills fan, so I don’t like Tom Brady, but I got to give him credit where it’s due, right? That guy doesn’t have he didn’t have an offseason when he played. He trained all year round, and he was constantly trying to seek out some way, some advantage, some new method, some training methodology, some diet, anything he could find to have the edge.

50:13
Michael Warren
But not all of them worked. But that didn’t stop his pursuit of finding the ones that did work.

50:17
Randy Wark
No. And he would pay money out of his own account. He would spend his own time. And that’s what separates a professional from an amateur, is in law enforcement because people would say, and it happened in this breakout, and I loved it. It went just the way I thought it was going to go. Somebody said, well, yeah, but they’re professional athletes. They get paid millions of dollars to play. We’re cops. I’m like, you’re right, absolutely right. But what happens if Tom Brady loses the game? Nothing. He goes back out, he plays next week and still gets paid millions of dollars to play the game, and it’s still called the Goat, and everybody still loves him. Right? What happens when a cop loses? What are the possible ramifications of that?

50:53
Michael Warren
Well, they end up in a hospital room like your dad, or worse, they end up as one of the line of duty deaths, the ultimate.

51:01
Randy Wark
They get sued, they get arrested, they get fired, they get chastised on social media, they’re viral on YouTube, and we just go on down the line, obviously, the worst being death and injury and then down from there. So the costs that officers pay for losing is way higher than a professional athlete. Way higher. But yet we don’t train as seriously as professional athletes do. We don’t take our job as serious. We call ourselves professionals, but we don’t act like it.

51:25
Brent Hinson
It’s just like our guest last week, Sergeant Jamie Borden, said to be professional. He practiced and practiced until there was no room for that’s. That’s his definition. That’s what he was talking about, being a.

51:42
Michael Warren
But, you know, Randy, it’s one of those things where people come in and they look at your skill in the mat room and they think to myself, man, I want to be like that. Until they realize how much practice it took to get to that point, they don’t come out and say it, but what they said was, hey, you know, it’s not worth it. I was just kidding. I want to be like that, but I don’t want to put the work in.

52:05
Randy Wark
Yeah, I tell people all the time, I don’t care if they don’t want to be a blue belt, purple belt, brown belt, black belt, jiu jitsu, I don’t care. Training jiu jitsu for law enforcement is different than just training jiu jitsu for sport or for passion, right? And you can do both. You can do both. But you have to set aside time to train specifically for your profession, and if that’s what you’re doing it for. And I think that it’s a shame when people look at hard work and shy away from it in this job. Because I’ve lost friends. I know other officers listening to this have lost friends, whether it be by their own hand or by a suspect’s hand. I’ve been involved in shootings. I’ve seen people lose their lives. I’ve fought over guns. I’ve been there, done some of those things that a lot of us have done.

52:51
Randy Wark
And I feel like it’s those experiences that a lot of times serve as the motivating factor. But we talked earlier as well about the difference between motivation and discipline. And motivation is fleeting. Discipline is lasting. And I think that takes effort. Yeah, it does. And it consistent, dependable, regular effort. Regardless of how you feel that day, regardless of what’s going on in your life to distract you. That doesn’t mean you can’t dial it back. You got to be foot on the gas pedal, pushed to the floor every day, because obviously that’s not going to work either. But it’s just the constant effort. You have to do that all the time. And discipline, I think, for police officers, what’s really important is to marry that discipline to their why. You have to constantly keep your finger on the pulse of why you’re doing this job. What brought you here?

53:42
Randy Wark
Why do you wear that badge? And I think sometimes, to be honest with you, if some people in this profession really were to look in the mirror truthfully and have that hard conversation with themselves, why my police officer, I think there’d be some that would leave the job. If not, then you need to marry that why to your discipline, and that’s going to keep you consistent and rooted in your training and constantly improving, because if your why is your wife and kids at home? They’re depending on you to come home. So now all of a sudden, the $125 gym membership or, oh, I’m tired today. I don’t feel like working out. That set of squats just doesn’t sound good to me. Okay, discipline. What’s your why? I want to go home to my family. That squat doesn’t stand a chance. Right? That $125 gym membership.

54:26
Randy Wark
Okay, well, I can’t have the beers I wanted to have this week. I got to cancel that subscription on YouTube, TV or something to make up for it. But now all of a sudden, it becomes an easy answer, because that why is so powerful.

54:40
Michael Warren
You find a way what professionals do. That’s the key right there. Professionals find a way. As we’re wrapping things up here, you’re kind of branching out. You’re doing some training on the side. How have you found it, training people outside your agency? What’s that experience been like for you? Have you enjoyed it? Has it been harder? Has it been easier?

54:59
Randy Wark
I love it. It’s another challenge, honestly, because it’s somewhat intimidating. I think I talked to you before my breakout session, and I was pretty nervous, which is weird because I teach so much that normally I don’t get nervous when I teach anymore, but it was because it was in front of a group that I’d never seen before. I’m across the country. Everybody in that room is a trainer, an instructor. They got those critical eyes. But at the same time, even though I was nervous, I was loving every minute of it. So it’s been a really rewarding experience. I’ve taught to some military I’m big on teaching pre assault indicators, body language. I think that’s really important. You couple that with your defensive tactics, with your firearms training, because it makes it more effective if you can read on these cues and already be kind of dialed in.

55:43
Randy Wark
So I taught that to some military folks. I’ve taught that to agencies here. I think it’s very rewarding to have that. I actually just had an article published in the NTOA magazine, Tactical Edge.

55:53
Michael Warren
Oh, very nice.

55:54
Randy Wark
So it’s the current issue that’s out right now, the summer issue. It’s in there. It’s basically grappling training for tactical operators, how to integrate that into their training, and the importance of it. So that’s been really cool, the breakout session. I’ve got a class coming up next week, teaching with another officer from a local agency on modern combatives that incorporates defensive tactics, simmunitions, forced on force scenarios, deescalation room clearing. So it’s been pretty exciting. Definitely something I want to get more into and keep expanding on because I’m not saying I’m the end all, be all. I’m far from it. Like I said, I love being a small fish in a big pond, and I’ve met some incredible people doing this, traveling and training. I want to continue doing that. And if there’s anything I can offer somebody that could save their life or make them even just a little bit better, I want to do that.

56:39
Michael Warren
So we’ll make sure we include your contact information in our show notes so people know how to reach out to you if they want to bring that training in.

56:46
Brent Hinson
But I got to ask one question. Mike here before we wrap up. I was looking at your LinkedIn here. So you have a coffee shop called Brew Jitsu. Is that correct? Because that’s genius. If so, I love that. That’s great.

57:01
Randy Wark
It’s in its development that’s completely separate from the training aspect. I want to find a way to bridge those two worlds. I want to have my own school someday and have the Brujitsu Coffee Company and also my Jiu Jitsu Academy. That’s like the dream after I retire.

57:17
Brent Hinson
That’s a great name.

57:20
Michael Warren
Fantastic.

57:21
Randy Wark
So me and a coworker, we actually have the LLC for that. It’s not a training company. It’s going to be coffee, t shirts, rash guards, stuff like that. But it’s going to be pretty cool. I’m excited about launching it. We’re in the development. We’re setting up. We’ve got our roaster that we’re going to go through, and we got to develop our unique flavor profile for our blend. I’m not going to just do a generic thing because like I said, I go all in on everything. So I got to have my own blend and then we’re going to launch and start selling. We’re going to start small crawl, walk, run. It’s a side hustle, but yeah, Brujitsu Coffee Company.

57:53
Brent Hinson
I said I got to ask about that because that’s a great it’s the.

57:56
Michael Warren
Only coffee shop in the world where you’ll be able to get your caffeine, you’ll be able to get splints for your broken fingers, some bandaids for the rug burns and everything. I think it’s the perfect mix right there.

58:08
Randy Wark
Our slogan currently is step up your ground game. Look at that, right? We’re working on it. We’re working on it.

58:16
Michael Warren
That’s genius right there.

58:17
Brent Hinson
I got to say, I think we had an extremely important conversation today, and I think you brought some incredible insight, and I’m so glad that we had you as a guest because the examples that you brought to this episode and the things that you talked about through training, I think a lot of people need to hear. And it’s been an incredibly insightful an hour that we spent with you talking and I certainly appreciate you giving us your time for that.

58:42
Randy Wark
No, thank you. Thank you for having me. Like I said, I think we’re all three of us are here for the same reasons, and I think it’s important that law enforcement constantly improves. I come to you guys humbly. It’s not about me, it’s about the profession. And I just appreciate you guys giving me a chance to speak on some of this.

58:58
Michael Warren
Well, thanks for taking the time, my brother.

58:59
Randy Wark
Yeah, thank you.